My 1st hubby and I split when our son was age 13. He now has grown children of his own. Yesterday I discovered my Ex and his wife never told my granddaughters EX's current wife and he were dating while grandpa and I were still married. People spin truth to pad their own wishes, no matter what. Yes. Children get hurt by divorce. Everybody within a fractured family atmosphere gets hurt: There are no winners when divorce rips a foundation out, from under the homestead.

So true, Jabber, and yet we still continue to build up families and then fracture them with our actions. I don't know what the ultimate solution to this might be.

The concept of "trial marriages" where couples live together without the commitment of marriage has certainly been floated and tried. But I still don't think it's the same as marriage. And I don't know where children fit into such a scenario.

When I ponder this, of course, I am doing so based on my personal experiences:

In all honesty, I married my first husband because I was in lust and wanted to live with him, but knew my parents would never let me come home again if they found out I was "living in sin."

At the altar, when the minister said "'til death do you part..." I mentally freaked out. But I kept my cool and proceeded with the wedding because I couldn't imagine doing a "Runaway Bride" routine. Too embarrassing.

Then my ex and I settled into a routine, and things were pretty darn good for the first several years. We both worked and we didn't have our first child until 5 years later. If you'd have asked me then, I would have said we had a very successful marriage.

Things began to fall apart (ie: my ex began publicly drinking to excess and secretly cheating on me) after the first baby came, though I totally didn't see it.

The wheels really fell off the wagon when I got pregnant the second time. Especially when the docs said the pregnancy was dangerous and that I should not have any more children. (Or if I did, I might die). Seems my ex really wanted to father more babies...though he didn't tell me this at the time.

So a trial marriage wouldn't have kept me from that divorce, as I see it. The divorce happened after 10 years and 2 children. And it happened to a marriage that had seemed quite successful until the -- very much desired -- children came along.

Other thoughts I've had:

Maybe there was less divorce in pioneer days because life was so challenging people had to band together to survive, and perhaps they were just too tired to fight or stray...

Maybe there is more divorce now because we live longer and the opportunity to cheat probably presents itself more easily.

Maybe we need to teach "how to have a successful marriage" in all high schools. We don't do that, of course. But it seems to me that the classes some kids take, where they have to simulate parenting a child DO go a long way toward reducing teen pregnancies.

So who else has thoughts on how we can either justify divorce to young children? Or -- better yet -- how we can keep bad marriages from happening in the first place... Then we wouldn't have to justify any divorces to our young children.

Which, of course, is where this whole discussion first began.

Dad has always told us "you have to work at marriage"....he was never a "divorce" type man. Granted Mom died early when they were married under 25 years, but his current marriage certainly could have gone awry. But he maintains a "'til death do us part" attitude.

Sadly three of his children have been divorce more than once. The fourth has married once and continues to this day. Very, very sad and I'm sure, as a parent, it's heartbreaking as well.

Even tho' some don't "see" it, many adults I know still suffer due to their parents' divorces. Some acknowledge that, some don't. I see the insecurities in their lives....patterns of indecisiveness and other emotions can come thru. Granted, they can happen to ANYONE, but, since I'm not a product of divorce, it's easy to see how it has effected others.

Yet another friend, just today, told me of her divorce after 28 years and that "people change" HELLO! No kidding!

I think it's just that people (me included) just are too stubborn/self centered to WANT to make changes for the sake of "'til death do us part", which we all vow at the altar.

It's so sad........(me included!)

Yes, people change. And it takes two people to make a marriage work. When only one partner is working at keeping the marriage viable, it is going to fail. And when one partner falls into addictions that put the financial and mental health of the family at risk, in spite of treatment, that marriage is not going to work.

I think that 'til death do us part' is admirable, but sometimes it's the death of the relationship that ends it, not the death of one of the partners.

I agree, yonuh! There are a lot of things that contribute to killing a relationship. To me, loyalty is a big issue. Trust and truth are right up there with it!

Even though many marriages don't make it til 'death do us part,' I wish we'd change our conceptions of marriage anyway. As a society, we're big on getting married very young because it looks better and on dreaming the big fairy-tale story. Neither scenario is a recipe for success.

We not only allow but encourage our young people, especially women, to over-focus on the Queen for a Day, stress-filled, blowout party but don't ask them to pay any attention the fact that they are entering into a contract. Whether they like it or not, this contract will mix finances, possessions, and children.

Di's original comments are correct: what about the children? What about caring for each other? How many women do we still see who thought that getting married would take care of everything, only to discover that through divorce, widowhood, or illness that their role in the family would change?

We act like marriage is out major step into adulthood but enter into it like children watching a Disney movie. In many other cultures, you owe financial support to your original family regardless of whether you divorce and remarry. Abandoning your first and subsequent families would be unthinkable. I think we distract women with the wedding dress and parties so they fail to grasp that this is business as well. (Men, too). Seriously, it ought to be harder to both get married and divorced, but I don't think that's going to happen. We're too invested in the idea that love will somehow conquer all, which it cannot and does not.

Ellemm,
I get the point that marriage isn't a panacea for curing life's ills. But humans are going to be attracted to each other, no matter what. So, should they get married? Live together without marriage? Physically entwine, then go their separate ways? What?

Oh, I hear you. Being attracted to someone else and being married, though, are two separate things. Liking to be with someone isn't the same as long-term situations like going to work, fixing things around the house, paying bills, or raising children.

Even with the best intentions, there are going to be marriages that don't work out. But we already know plenty of situations that are tailor-made for failure: marrying too young, marrying because someone is pregnant, lack of employment, incompatibility with finances, drug or alcohol or violence proglems, etc.

I think the bigger issue comes with children. Men and women come together and break up all the time, but children are there to stay. Do we pay much attention beforehand? Oh, heck no. What we can do is encourage each other to think before we leap off that mountain in the first place: do you want to mix your money and home with this person? Do you see him/her as a good parent? Have you even talked about children? How does this person treat the rest of your family? Have you talked about anything?

By the way, I happen to live in a common-law marriage state. People here can claim all the benefits of being married if they have lived together for a certain period of time.

And I can offer as the latest exhibit in marital foolishness Kim Kardashian filing for divorce today, after 62 DAYS of marriage and a $10 million wedding. What a joke.

Ellemm,
I saw that Kardashian foolishness. And the things you listed to think about before marriage, I didn't even consider when I was young. I fell head-over-heals and got married to a person I met in high school. We'd dated for 3 1/2 years but I never thought about his personality, ability to earn a living. Nothing! Zip!
The "I Do" lasted 14 years, but still failed. And my son paid the price. Then again I was abandoned at 25 months old by a women who'd been married 12 years and had 5 kids before she had me. So go figure! P.S. I have nothing against common law relationships. It's just when folks are young, hormones override brain power!!!